Redefining Motherhood for More Joy and Freedom with Dr Gertrude Lyons
Fourth Trimester Podcast Episode 139: Redefining Motherhood for More Joy and Freedom with Dr Gertrude Lyons
What if motherhood wasn’t something you had to fit into, but something you could redefine on your own terms? In this episode of Fourth Trimester, we’re joined by Dr. Gertrude Lyons, a leading expert in holistic women’s development with over 20 years of experience, to explore how rewriting our beliefs about motherhood can lead to more joy, freedom, and self-love.
Redefining Motherhood
Many of us unconsciously inherit ideas about what it means to be a “good mother,” often leading to guilt, burnout, or self-doubt. But what if you could step into parenthood, or even just your own life, with more confidence, connection, and purpose? This episode is about learning how breaking free from outdated expectations can transform not only your parenting but your entire sense of self.
Dr Gertrude Lyons, Author & Coach
“Motherhood isn’t something we fit into. It’s something we can create on our own terms”
— Dr Gertrude Lyons
About Dr Gertrude Lyons
Dr. Gertrude Lyons stands at the forefront of coaching and education in holistic women’s development, parenting, self-love, and relationship fulfillment. As the visionary behind Rewrite The Mother Code, LLC, she inspires women to embark on their unique paths of personal transformation, drawing on her over 20+ years of experience in empowering individuals, couples, parents, and families towards fulfilled lives. Her doctoral research and diverse certifications and training enable Dr. Gertrude to offer a tailored, integrative approach that caters to the specific needs of individuals, couples, or families. She holds a steadfast belief that we all embody the essence of mother. Through shared creative energy, Dr. Gertrude advocates for mutual support and collaboration, guiding her clients to become and live more fully as themselves.
Sarah Trott: [00:00:44] Hi, this is Sarah Trott and welcome back to the Fourth trimester Podcast. I’m here with a special guest today, and we are talking about rewriting motherhood for more joy and freedom, which is a really cool topic. We are going to talk about this question like, what if motherhood wasn’t something you had to fit into, but something you could redefine on your own terms. And so on this episode, we’re joined by Doctor Gertrude Lyons. She’s a leading expert in holistic women’s development, with over 20 years of experience to explore how rewriting our beliefs about motherhood can lead to more joy, freedom, and self-love. Many of us unconsciously inherit ideas about what it means to be a good mother or a good parent, and that can often lead to negativity, right? Like feelings of guilt or burnout or self-doubt. But what if you could step into parenthood, or even just your own life, right, with more confidence and connection and purpose? So today we’ll learn how breaking free from our outdated expectations can really help transform not only parenting, but the entire sense of self. So welcome, Doctor Gertrude Lyons.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:01:50] Thank you Sarah, thank you so much. It’s an honor to be on your show.
Sarah Trott: [00:01:55] Thank you so much. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:01:58] I’m an author, speaker, life coach. I lead retreats and intensives, and I’ve been doing that for, gosh, like 27 years. To all all, all, all people. Right? Working with them, supporting them and living our best lives. And I went back I got two master’s degrees while my daughters were growing up. And then a doctorate that I completed in 2017, because through my mothering experience, I realized that even as a coach, through all that time period and being surrounded with and literally director of a couples and parenting program so very in this conscious space, but realized that along the way I stopped doing my own growth work, my own personal development, my own self-awareness work. And that really struck me. And I had regrets about that and sadness as my daughters got older. Why did I let that go? Where did it go? So that’s why I decided to study that like, hmm, You know, I was able to do that leading up to kids and really rocking the boat with my husband and and really being in that that space of growth and development. But kids just kind of knocked me into a place of fear. And like, I don’t I just got to keep it together, right? I don’t want to plumb these depths anymore, but I’ll support other people to do it, which is what I did for a number of years.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:03:25] So, yeah. So and then had this epiphany that it’s like, wait a sec, like it didn’t what happened? And so to explore both myself. But hey, why don’t I get a doctorate out of it? Also, let’s look and see what’s what’s in the research about this. How do we discover, how can we stay on track with our making motherhood a transformational experience for ourselves? So I did that and then have been focusing and put it under this umbrella called Rewriting the Mother Code, because I realized there are really, really strong wiring and messages that we have in our upbringings and our childhoods, and then with our culture that narrow limit us set up fears that we don’t necessarily really explore and look into to see are these real fears, or is this just what the culture is telling me I should be afraid of? And you know, what’s kind of really going on here? So that we can have this expanded more. I call it cosmic experience just to, like, really kind of blow the the lid off of our expectations. So I’ve been supporting continuing to support myself. But women, people, mothers in that arena. And it’s I would say my kids are grown. They’re in their 20s. And it’s like a new phase of of mothering for me, a new phase of motherhood, so to speak.
Sarah Trott: [00:04:39] Yeah. And it’s not too late to do that work. It can be years later.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:04:42] One of the premises in my work is that, and this was something that came while I was doing my research. And working with women is something I believe, which is that we all mother. We may choose to mother children, but we mother careers and ideas and dreams and other people pets. We’re we all mother. But the most important person, and generally the one not at the top of the list to mother is ourselves. So that became a really key piece to the framework of this, because it was it made me so sad to see women who had built beautiful careers and had businesses and were supporting employees and supporting lots of people in their lives, but felt like failures. Because the one thing you know, that really makes you a woman and living your purpose is to have a child. So I really wanted to get that message into the atmosphere, into the zeitgeist about like, let’s they’re different, but let’s get aligned around these and, and really be able to use this mother energy, so to speak, of how we care our creative and caring energy let’s come together as women around that. So that was another big piece.
Sarah Trott: [00:05:51] Yeah. Kind of redefining the term motherhood and what that even means in the first place, right?
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:05:55] Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Sarah Trott: [00:05:58] That’s neat. So I love asking people about their own fourth trimester experience. This is called the Fourth Trimester Podcast, of course. And I’m looking for any lessons that you learn that you would want to share with listeners who are perhaps about to go through the same experience at the same time?
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:06:13] Yeah, no, for sure, because I think I think so much of our energy and that goes into, well, I know it did for me conception and just the journey I went on with that. Right. And then a journey of pregnancy and then a lot around planning for the birth and how I wanted that. Not as much planning around what happens after. Right. What happens once you give birth and you have this little being there. And I was really surprised at how unprepared I was. And I imagine you hear that a fair amount, right? How unprepared we all are. It’s not like I didn’t talk to people or I had some idea, but at some level, until you’re in it, it’s like really hard to know what’s it going to stir up for you. And I would say for my first daughter, something because we had a really challenging nursing relationship and it was something I really wanted to do. I had my hopes on it. I believed in it. So I was going to try everything I could to make that work. Right. But she’s barely gaining weight. You know, she’s eking along and lactation consultants all the things. and it wasn’t until I added, looking at myself. So this was my first experience of applying what I hope to support others with now, which is put yourself in the equation from not just from lowering your stress or the kind of the immediate circumstance, what’s happening, what else is kind of going on here? And, and I worked with a coach to do this.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:07:42] And one of the things that came up was this awareness felt really insecure as a new mom. Didn’t know, didn’t feel like I knew how to do it. Didn’t feel like like this. All those messages were going on. And my husband, it’s like it was almost a competitive dynamic, right? Like when I would be feeling like, oh my God, I can’t seem to calm her or be with her. And he’d scoop her up and then like, do something and she’d stop crying, right? I wouldn’t I’m not saying he was like, look at how much better I am at it. But I felt like, like, gosh, even he’s better at this than I am. Even though we did have a competitive dynamics. But we worked on it and we looked at that and I, I talked to him about it. So uncovering that piece and then with the, the nursing specifically also looking at how I don’t feel like enough, right. Like, am I enough, can I give enough? I’ve always had you know, I’d had challenges and nourishing myself and really understanding what that was, even physically. Yeah. And so now I’m supposed to provide this nourishment for this tiny baby when I feel like I’m not even good at it for myself and letting myself be in those feelings and have some healing around that for myself that things just once I worked on some of these aspects in the system. I’m not saying that’s a magic formula, but it’s something I don’t think we always think to add to it, like shifted like completely.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:09:15] Right? Like she she started latching better. I think I was just more open to it. And having released some of that emotional baggage. It’s why I say we’re our children from day one or even in utero, are our best teachers and mirrors in ways that we don’t even know until we’re in it. Right? and so I think that was something that I was a bigger dynamic that happened in fourth trimester for me. I can talk a little bit about my second if you’d like. Also like because I you have two goes at it with our second daughter pregnancy all that I’m like, okay, I’ve been through this now you think you kind of know what to expect and feeling a little more comfortable. And the issues I had with my first daughter with nursing and some of that stuff. Nope. Not there. I’m feeling pretty good about feeling like I’m going into it, feeling pretty good about myself. But this one I don’t even geez, how would I how have I worded it? It’s I really didn’t realize kind of how lost I was for the first two months, really just kind of getting by, getting this getting the things done, the basic needs, my basic needs, their basic needs. And remember this literal point at like two months postpartum, like, like I kind of woke up a little bit and said, wow, okay, I think I can do this.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:10:35] Like I didn’t even know I was questioning if I could do it before then, but I hit this point. It’s like, okay, all right, I’m I’m coming out of it here. Uh, and really aware that I needed a lot more support now that I had two than I had given myself. And and she was great like, great baby from the standpoint of she was nursing great. She was sleeping, like, practically slept through the night very early on, like some of the typical things that throw you off. But something about like having the two sent me into a serious period of overwhelm for those first couple months, and then I started adding more support. You know, we got more of a full time nanny. We were able to add that to the the picture. And my husband was I mean, with both times with my first daughter, I went back to work at like six weeks and we worked, so we split things up more evenly. But this time I said, I’m going to be home. You know, I’m going to take some time to just be home, which was fine, except we didn’t really clarify the dynamic. Like, I still want you to pitch in, you know? Yes. Okay, I’ll get up most of the nights for stuff, but not really seeing, like. No, just because I wasn’t working. I still had now two children and we needed to be sharing more than we had been. So those were, those were probably a couple of the big things that came up in both fourth trimesters to navigate.
Sarah Trott: [00:12:00] Yeah. And I mean, we’re talking about outdated ideas and conceptions about like the roles and definitions of what it is to be a parent. But that’s a big one you just hit on, which is that it’s not work. It is work.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:12:12] Yeah, it is. It’s a lot of work. I was still in that mentality of like I’m not also leaving the house for work. But it was that was a me coming to valuing my emotional labor, the labor with the girls. And that work. Right? Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
Sarah Trott: [00:12:30] The physical household work and I mean, it’s so it’s an important work too. I mean, this human that you’re raising, it’s so incredible. I also liked your point about support, about getting support. We have also like the outdated ideas around having to do everything yourself. You can have people bring meals. Friends and family and neighbors can help do those little things that sort of add up when you have community around you and you can ask for that help, right? That’s not a weakness. Not at all.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:12:57] Yeah, exactly. And people want to help. I mean, that’s the thing that I had to start learning too, is we had resources to pay for some extra help. But with friends and people in my community, I felt like, oh I should be able to do this myself. What do I you know? Geez, it seems like everyone else is doing it themselves. Of course, struggling the same, but not talking about it. So we all get this misconception that, oh, if that’s what everyone’s doing, I should just be expected to do this myself, know how to do it. And and then so it was it was a big growth move for me to remember like or that it was okay to ask it was okay to ask for support. And some of that support was with physical things, but some of it was really emotional talking, getting that kind of support where I’m still taking care of myself emotionally and friends and that whole arena.
Sarah Trott: [00:13:47] Yeah, I mean, the point has been made on this program a few times and really well by someone called Jane Honickman. She’s the founder of Postpartum Support International. And the point there, uh, that, that you’re also making is just parents need to talk. It fights isolation. And in fact, actually everybody needs to talk, right. People who are aging. Right. That’s really important. People who are growing up together when they’re younger, they need that social support. So that’s that’s hugely important. Let’s talk a little bit about motherhood ideas. Why do so many women feel trapped by these outdated ideas? And then how can rewriting some of those narratives help do what we talked about, like bring more joy and a sense of freedom?
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:14:27] Yeah. You know, I talk about this a lot in my book Around just how powerful generational wiring is, right? Like I, I think we can all agree that we get wired by our childhoods and our immediate culture, but those cultures are built on cultures and cultures of doing the same thing. And I think even when we start having like, well, I think I’d like to do it a little differently, and then you start talking about doing it differently and a million ways to Sunday, you’re going to get shut down. I why I love working with women before they have children is the best advice I try and give them is do some of your own personal work before you have kids if you can, right? If you’re at any point, if you’re thinking about it or you think you might like, this will benefit you, because what we need is that core sense of self to even think about exploring what some of these ideas are. The one we’ve been talking about, right? That there’s a right way to mother or putting ourselves first. I call these some of the mother other codes to give examples of them. And these are a couple of them, right, that your child and then your partner or spouse or other people. And you could your if you’re working outside the home, all those things and you know you’ll come last on the list if at all.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:15:46] And that makes you a good mother, right? Because we want to get that good mother. And that comes from generations of being told, like, this is the most important job you’ll ever have. This is you have to be there first and foremost for your children. Well, I think it’s pretty wired in us that to love and care for our children. Right? But what needs to be rewired is that loving them actually includes loving yourself and caring for yourself. And that’s actually a loving act for them as much as doing things directly for them. Maybe more, because one you’re modeling for them that you you have value. You know that you value yourself. You’re this human being with needs, and you do it. It’s it’s okay to get those needs met because they’re going to take whatever we give them and they’re going to ask for more. And that’s why they’re so great. Like they’re always asking for what they need and want. So if we can have that sense of self, and as I support women to come up with the kind of values and principles to guide them, I call it your mother code statement. So identifying what some of these are. Being curious, being able to look at choices and decisions throughout your motherhood from a curious place, from a discerning place.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:17:03] Just because in our Western American culture, you’re just to assume that it’s the best and it’s the safest. But explore that really. Like make sure that that’s true for you. And some of what we take for granted isn’t actually the whole truth, right? Until we start deciding to uncover some of those, some of those myths. So one is being willing to be curious. And then as you start developing ideas or a sense of like what you want or how you’d like picturing it, be aware that there’s going to be pushback and have a sense of like, yeah, I may have to defend this position, right? I may have to really hold agency for myself. And it doesn’t mean being closed off either from somebody saying like, well, have you thought about this? Like, I get you want to do it this way or you want to do have your birth be such and such or raise your kids this way. It still can be open to exploring what somebody, somebody’s unsolicited advice that comes your way. People somehow feel like just entitled to give us one of your parents when you’re pregnant and a new parent. So the more you can kind of be in that habit and build those muscles, then that choice that you’ve made could open doors for you that you wouldn’t have been there for you had you not.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:18:24] So that might be a certain way that you want to give birth. I’ll use myself as an example. I did choose to do two home births for our daughters in the 90s, and my our families didn’t like the idea. There were certainly people who gave us pushback that we still explored. We did a lot of research. You know, we talked to a lot of people, and then it’s based on our values of wanting to be present and conscious. You know, that this is what fit for us. That then, for me, I think there’s something about following your path. It doesn’t mean if I had gotten transferred to a hospital or any of that, fine. You know, I think all births are beautiful, but it did open a door and a space for me to be fully present to some of the miracles that happened through both births that I’m immensely grateful for. Right. And I think opens doors to possibilities of our experience that it doesn’t mean that you might not. You’re not going to not have a good experience. You just don’t know what that questioning can bring and to be open to it.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:19:32] It’s kind of. So the name of my book is Rewrite the Mother Code from Sacrifice to Stardust A Cosmic Approach to Motherhood. And that cosmic isn’t just this woo woo like, ooh like, let’s have this far out motherhood. It’s more when you start exploring, breaking down some of these beliefs and choosing your path to motherhood. You’re just going to learn more, right? You’re going to have you’re going to open, you’re going to expand and experience. You’re going to the possibilities that are there for you are just greater and more expansive. And some of those, I think, tap into, I call them cosmic codes in the book, but kind of universal things like, we’re all loved, right? That we’re all connected and that the universe wants the best for us, that our pain is actually a portal to sacred experiences. If you if you let it be. So some of those kinds of experiences become possible. But to me, it’s just as important that you have that satisfaction. Like, this is what I chose. I stuck with it and I learned a ton, and I’m really proud of myself for it. Right. And I feel like I really owned it. I owned this experience, and that in itself could be something that’s hugely transformational for someone.
Sarah Trott: [00:20:46] Yeah, definitely. Being open and being flexible to possibilities is a big thing. It may not go exactly the way you think it should, but that’s okay.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:20:55] Yeah. And I think that’s another code, right? Like once you have your baby, everything. I don’t know, like where it’s going to be baby bliss. Right? Like that. Everything just falls into place. You naturally know what to do, you know. And you just have this, like sweet little baby. That’s just fun and easy. And no matter how much we know better, there’s still some of that mythical wiring that just. We want it to be like that almost. Right. And and there are moments of that, I believe. And I mean, I’ve experienced moments of it, but it’s not the it’s not the full, full experience at all. And if you can be present enough to catch the glimmers of those magical moments, I think that’s a huge win.
Sarah Trott: [00:21:36] Yeah. Yeah. No, it’s not reality that it’s just because you do your homework, it turns out perfect. It just doesn’t work that way.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:21:44] And there’s no perfect, right? Sarah. I mean, we get set up feeling like that way, and some things look perfect. I’m going to call it had the advantage of raising our daughter, like giving birth particularly and raising them for a period of time without social media because an arena that just adds to that cultural belief of like, because everybody shares the beautiful sides of it and and so much, so much weighted toward everything looking perfect. And lovely that we know it’s not like it can’t be true. Like they they have to have issues too. But we somehow think like, well, maybe it could be. Maybe they maybe they their house always looks that neat. And everybody’s dressed perfectly all the time.
Sarah Trott: [00:22:29] Yeah. I so appreciate the more realistic posts that I see every now and then if like, yeah, I’m a mess. My house is a mess. But this is but like actually there are certain things that can wait. The laundry can wait. Like there are things that can wait because you’re prioritizing higher quality time and slowing down. I mean, that’s what a lot of this time is about slowing down and connection for sure. so you talked a lot about some beautiful possibilities for transformation, which I really liked. I’m wondering if you have any simple but powerful things that someone can put into practice right away to help start redefining motherhood for themselves?
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:23:09] Yeah, I think for sure. Well, one of my go tos that I love because it’s connected to everything we’re saying, even though we really haven’t talked about it specifically yet. So just a little bit of context. You know, I talked about doing work or being aware as you’re parenting of what is kind of going on inside of you and being able to learn and grow from that and work with that. But some of, I think, a skill that’s maybe not talked about as much with it is having emotional intelligence, right, like having facility with our emotions and honoring and valuing our emotional states, because that helps just practically in parenting particularly because when we’re either, like triggered by fear in something that happens or anger or just really kind of feel like our kind of skyrocket what’s happening in our brain is that literally called an amygdala hijack. And our lowest functioning part of the brain is what’s going to act for us first, right? Like and just react. And that’s when you talk to moms like, I don’t I don’t know why I yelled at my child, right. Or I have this rage that just comes up, but the more we can get fluent in our emotions, the more we can have access to them throughout our day and aware that they’re all they all serve a purpose. They all have a function and they’re beautiful.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:24:27] You know, even our fear, our anger and our sadness, not just our joy, our all a part of our physiological system. And and I think that awareness is really important. So then a very practical way to just start playing with that if it isn’t something you’ve worked on in growth work of some sort or therapy or anything like that, and this is new, but even if it’s not, this is something that my husband and I still do when our kids are grown and gone, it becomes a way to even like check in on each other’s day. And we call it the feelings game. Identify. And I use five primary emotions that you can. You can vary these to what feels right to you, but fear, anger, sadness and joy and those five emotions. And so whether it’s at the dinner table or at some point in our day to share, where did I feel each one of those at some point in my day? You know, so it doing that with our kids as they grew up, it was such a a more meaningful way to hear about a day than it was just how was your day and get the like it was fine or kind of give a framework to answer the question that actually then had some depth and meaning. You know, we didn’t that didn’t have to take us into some big long conversation, but just that practice of identifying and noticing like, wow, I really have a hard time identifying where I’m hurt in, in my day because we’re hurt all the time.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:25:55] Right? And we just don’t realize it because we’ve gotten so numb to it. So some of them, it’s like you start noticing patterns like, oh, I can really see where I was angry or where I felt joy, but yeah, fear and hurt. Not in touch with them. So it helps you really kind of keep that emotional aspect going, and then you can go further with it and start there’s other practices you can do after that around spaces to give full freedom, to have our emotions to a degree and and, and conversations you can have with your kids about it and what it means to take responsibility for them and all sorts of things that can go from there. But just this practice ongoing really helps then you to be able to when you have those amygdala hijacks to just name it, oh, I’m angry. or I’m scared suddenly you’re in a different part of your brain now you’re in your higher functioning because you’ve just by naming it, you’ve shifted yourself and you’re able to have totally different decision making, uh, abilities have access to a broader range of your higher functioning capacity.
Sarah Trott: [00:27:05] Yeah. And back to modeling. I mean, what a beautiful example to show your family. Your children. Hey, it’s actually perfectly fine to have these feelings and to name them and to put that into practice. I know for littler kids, like maybe preschool or early years, it can be as simple as a practice. So we like to do what’s your rose and your thorn?
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:27:26] Yeah, that’s a good one too.
Sarah Trott: [00:27:28] So like for for younger kids it can simplify it a little bit. But I like your five emotions. What were they again.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:27:33] Fear hurt anger sadness and joy. Right.
Sarah Trott: [00:27:38] So that kind of takes it to the next level.
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:27:40] Yeah. And they’re kind of they’re somewhat in the order of which they’ve developed in our brain when I name them that way, too, because fear is the first emotion to come online, because it’s what kept us alive and keeps us alive. So learning to navigate our fear is, is kind of a first big one. And that’s the one call it our lizard brain. It’s like fight where we get into the fight, flight, freeze dynamics and all of that. Yeah, yeah. But we can’t we all want to just feel happy and joy. But I have found and I think it’s true, studies will show it too, unless you have access to all of them, and there’s power in requisite variety of your emotions and having a capacity to bring them online when you need them, the more then you do have access to your joy and your and your happiness, because you’re willing to feel your pain, because you’re willing to feel all of the feelings, because we otherwise we’re just think we’re supposed to just be happy. And those other ones are bad, and I’m just supposed to get rid of them. No. You know, when when we’re open and responsible with them, they’re beautiful. You know, in their in their function.
Sarah Trott: [00:28:46] Yeah. And and being honest with oneself and trusting oneself is a good start to understanding who you are and rewriting that story for yourself. Right? Yeah. so I want to invite you, Doctor Lyons, to talk about any final thoughts you might have that you want to share with listeners?
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:29:01] Yeah. Well. Thanks, Sarah. No, you’ve definitely opened the doors to to all of these spaces. And I think the only thing I would add is putting ourselves kind of in there as we’re giving our kids everything that we had hoped to have, that we can give that to ourselves. And when I talk about this mothering yourself, it’s everything that we have talked about shifting those beliefs, being more aware, having emotional facility. Those are all ways to mother ourselves. But we don’t always it doesn’t have to be this thing we do and set time aside for when we’re engaging with our children and giving them love or our attention. If at any moments we could picture that we’re giving that to our little selves right alongside them. It’s it takes some doing to to. To actually make that a reality. But any little bit that you can do that while you’re parenting and especially in those in that fourth trimester because you’re giving so much of yourself and it’s beautiful, but you can just find these ways to give it to yourself along the way also.
Sarah Trott: [00:30:08] Beautiful. Thank you. Where can people go to learn more about you?
Dr Gertrude Lyons: [00:30:12] Absolutely. Well, my website has pretty much everything and that is www.drgertrudelyons.com. And there you can find out about the coaching that I do, the retreats that I do for around self mothering, immersive experiences, freebie things that are on there. Sign up for my newsletter and my book that I mentioned a few times in here. I call my dissertation my third child and this book my fourth child because so much the same experience. So I love that that’s out there too. So find me there. I have a podcast, Rewrite the Mother Code. Happy to have you listen in there. Sarah’s going to be a guest on my podcast as well, which I’m super excited about. And yeah, all those ways, social media at Doctor Gertrude Lyons. So you can find me on all those channels. And I’d love to hear from you.
Sarah Trott: [00:31:07] Wonderful. Thank you so much. We’ll make sure we have all the links that you mentioned in the show notes down below. So if anyone’s listening, you can check those out. Well, thank you so much and we’ll see you next time.
The content provided in this article(s) is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute medical or other professional advice. Neither Sarah Trott nor Fourth Trimester Media Group LLC are liable for claims arising from the use of or reliance on information contained in this article.
