In this Baby Carrier Guide episode, we explore the world of babywearing with Whitney Dula, an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant (IBCLC), postpartum doula, and babywearing expert. We think Whitney has the perfect name for a doula, don’t you?
Whitney shares her journey to becoming a babywearing educator and provides a comprehensive guide to selecting and using baby carriers. Listeners will learn about the different types of carriers, DIY options, and essential safety considerations to ensure a secure and comfortable experience for both parent and baby.
Whitney discusses the developmental and bonding benefits of babywearing, offers practical tips for breastfeeding while babywearing, and highlights common mistakes to avoid.
This episode is a must-listen for new and expecting parents seeking expert advice and practical tips on integrating babywearing into their parenting journey.
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NOTE: As a general disclaimer for this episode, Whitney Dula has purchased all of her wraps (either secondhand or original owner) and she does not endorse any particular brand or have sponsorships. Her views/opinions are entirely her own, and she encourages families to do their own market research. But also to use what you have and have fun!
Whitney Dula, IBCLC, Postpartum Doula, and Baby Carrier Educator
“Babywearing is more than just a hands-free solution for parents; it’s a practice of connection—fostering attachment, supporting development, and nurturing a bond between parent and child.”
— Whitney Dula, IBCLC, Postpartum Doula, and Baby Carrier Expert
Sarah Trott: [00:00:01] Hi, this is Sarah Trott and welcome back to the Fourth Trimester Podcast. I’m here with a special guest today, Whitney Dula, who I will introduce in a moment. We are going to be talking about Babywearing. We’re going to call this our ‘Baby Carrier Guide’, where we’re going to talk about benefits and tips and safety recommendations. Anything that a new parent or even an experienced parent may want to know about babywearing and baby carriers. So I’m really excited about this topic. I personally am a huge fan of Babywearing. I don’t know what I would have done. I think my arms would just have been maybe more muscly or something. I don’t know. But Babywearing was definitely such a benefit for me personally, so I’m thrilled to jump into the topic and dive in.
Sarah Trott: [00:00:49] I want to remind our guests that we have a website which is fourthtrimesterpodcast.com, so we will talk about different resources and links and things that you can go to and access. So they’ll be in the show notes and they’ll also be on our website, which again is fourthtrimesterpodcast.com. If you sign up for our newsletter or hit subscribe and follow wherever you listen, then you’ll be alerted every time we release a new episode. So please also do that now. Whitney, I’m so excited to have you on the program. Welcome.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:01:20] Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Sarah Trott: [00:01:23] Yes. I’m going to give you a little introduction. Whitney, you are a native of Prince George’s County, Maryland. You have a deep affinity for old Bay and crab cakes done correctly. That sounds delicious. Absolutely. Whitney owns the Mama’s Dula, LLC. It’s a lactation-focused postpartum care service based in Maryland in the Washington, D.C. metro area. And she does that in addition to being a public health lactation consultant and health educator for the Babies Born Healthy Program, part of Montgomery County, Maryland Department of Health and Human Services. When she’s not working, she can be found serving her community with her various organizations, traveling with her family, and planning her next DIY adventure. Whitney. I love that. Tell me more about yourself in your own words.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:02:37] Sure. So, like my bio said, I am a live outside of the DC area. I am a native, born and raised here. I’m a mom of two girls, both of whom were exclusively breastfed. Like you said, I don’t know how I would have survived Otherwise they were both extremely exclusively breastfed. Exclusively babyworn. I don’t even think my youngest touched a ground until she was probably six months. It was just so much easier to function, especially since my youngest was a Covid baby. So having to be a full time parent with a toddler in a pandemic and it’s like, don’t touch anything. Don’t walk away. So it’s just easier to function with them strapped to me, you know?
And also, like I said, I do work both in private practice as well as in public health. so I just have a deep love of caring for new families, expanding families in all aspects of that and educating. So I never thought I would be a teacher, per se. but have taken on several roles where my primary function is educating and just sharing and allowing people to experience for themselves. So that is what I do in a nutshell.
Sarah Trott: [00:04:01] Yeah, I can also relate to that. It’s such a benefit to be a little bit hands free and also know that your baby is secure and happy being on your chest.
Sarah Trott: [00:04:28] Tell me a little bit more about your own fourth trimester experience, and maybe how that relates to the work that you’re doing now.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:04:39] In this context, I would probably discuss more, about my youngest daughter, she’s four and a half, about to be five. She was born Super Bowl Sunday in 2020, right before the world shut down. And we had no idea that that was going to be on the horizon when she was six weeks old. and so going from having this idea of what my postpartum was going to look like with that fourth trimester was going to look like, welcoming this new baby into the family. She at the time was like the baby, baby. So out of all the grandkids and everything.
So we were really excited thinking of all this extra family help we were going to have that we never got. because everybody was like, oh, well, one, you’re not a new mom anymore. So you kind of know what you’re doing. And I’m like, no, no, I don’t. I think that’s a huge misconception that the more children you have that the better off you are. And it’s the complete opposite. It’s like more chaos and I need more help and more hands. They are outnumbering us. and then like I said, we had this we had this global pandemic. So then also people didn’t want to come and help because they didn’t want us to get sick. They didn’t want us to get them sick.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:05:56] And so there’s a lot of folks that my youngest child has not met. Like, there’s a lot of family and a lot of friends that she’s never met because we’ve just never had an opportunity coming out of that pandemic space to make those relationships happen. So my second fourth trimester experience was it was very like cocooning and cozy, but also very isolating. I think I had put some things in place from my first time around as a new mom that I think protected me against some of those things. So I had like I had my therapist already on deck, and she got to hear about all of my issues and trials and tribulations going from 1 to 2.
My parents were still very actively involved, even through that and trying to do the different things to mitigate our risk. But largely it was just me and the kids in the house for like a year. And it was on one hand it was great. And then on the other hand, there were definitely days where I’m like, I have to get out this house. Like, I need to get away. and then having two Velcro babies essentially. It had its moments. You know, I’m sure a lot of people can relate to that.
Sarah Trott: [00:07:17] Oh, yeah. I do recall how wonderful it was to get to know my neighborhood in a new way, because daily family walks were our opportunity to get some fresh air and get outside and get some exercise. You know, everyone was pretty big on putting their schedules together early on. So yes, getting outside and walking was so good. So tell me more about what inspired you to become a Babywearing educator?
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:07:46] Yes. So I have two girls, I did babywear some with my oldest. but with her we did primarily like the structured carriers. So for those of you who might have an idea, those are like the ergo baby carriers or the Tula carriers. When you go into target and walk through the baby aisle, they’re usually hanging up on the little hangers and they’re a little pricey, you know and come with different prints or patterns and things like that. And that was my introduction to babywearing. I actually had a friend gift me her hand-me-down ergo baby, and I was just like, okay, this is great. and it allowed me to kind of share some of that literally physical parenting burden with my husband because like you said, you need extra hands to do stuff.
And then actually, I had someone give me a wrap, and I loved the idea of a wrap, but I just found it so incredibly overwhelming. like, I didn’t know what to do with all the fabric. It was a lot of fabric. Like, how am I supposed to tie this thing? Like, what if I want to take the baby out and I got to untie everything? It just seems like to be a little bit too much. but when I had my youngest, I was like, okay, well, now I started collecting this stuff.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:09:03] I had like 2 or 3 of the structured carriers. someone had given me a ring sling and swore by that. And I had started picking up some other wraps, and I was like, I have all this stuff, like, I really need to learn how to use it. And then, like I said, we were in a pandemic and I had nothing else to do with my time, honestly. And I had a two and a half year old running around in a newborn. so I was like, all right, well, we’re just it started off with, let me take just a class, like, just like a virtual class, just to learn how to use this stuff.
Me becoming an educator wasn’t really on the forefront of my mind. And actually, I was already in a student space because at the time I was also in the process of sitting for my lactation consultant certification as well. So it was already like, I’m already in study mode, I’m stuck in the house. I have nothing else to do. Why not? so it really just started from there. And I did my initial certification with Amy Rainbow of Adjoyn consulting up in the Portland, Oregon area. and had like a great one on one session with her and really got me just understanding how to use the apps and understanding that you don’t have to do all the fancy stuff right away.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:10:19] And I feel like that’s what draws people into it especially with the fancy wrap carriers. Or you see the specialty prints and it’s the fluffy stuff that draws you in and you’re like, I want to do that, but that’s not where you start. So it was just getting the hang of like a basic crisscross. And then from there you go into doing more and more fancy stuff and went down a rabbit hole on YouTube. Tiktok was starting to blow up, and that’s where I was able to get the practice in.
And it really is a people will say babywearing is a practice, just like yoga or anything else. It is a practice. It is muscle memory. So the more that you do it, the better you do get at it. And so I certified at the end of 2020. The summer of 2020 is when I first got certified in that, and then started offering it as a service for my postpartum clients. That is once they’re home. You know, a lot of my clients were breastfeeding parents or maybe had other children, and it was just an easy way for me to share my love of babywearing, but also help parents just have another tool in their toolbox.
Sarah Trott: [00:11:28] Yeah, and I appreciate that you’re talking about the fact that there are many different types of carriers out there. What are the categories and what differences and key things to keep in mind? What are some considerations?
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:11:51] Definitely. so there are many, many different types of carriers. that could be a whole topic in and of itself, just the history of it and the different types. And I will say with some of the, some of the different styles that are becoming more popular, we do want to be respectful of the cultures that they come from. Babywearing is something that’s been practiced by different cultures all over the world.
So to say that it belongs to one particular group or another would be inaccurate, but there are certain styles that might be more common, I guess you could say. So one of the ones that we see, and it looks really cool, is a lot of African tribes, they have just the symbol, the symbol what they call a tang or a kanga. And that’s just one piece of fabric. You see the women, they have the babies wrapped on their back and that’s it. The babies are just magically staying up there. which, honestly, I loved doing. It was so simple, especially once you got the hang of it. so you have just simple one piece wraps. So that could be the Keatings. The Kangas ring slings would also fall into that category. Woven wraps would fall into that category where it’s just one big piece of fabric.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:13:08] And the great thing about those types of carriers is you don’t have to necessarily go out and buy a special carrier. You can use things that you already have laying around your house. One of my daughter’s favorite carriers in that style was a Delta blanket that I stole from a plane. Oh, Delta Airlines blanket. They’re the perfect size. They’re not too heavy. They’re strong enough to hold up a kid. and so my husband works for the airline, and we had these blankets. And I was just like they can’t do anything else with them. So I was like, oh, like it became a baby carrier at home.
Sarah Trott: [00:13:44] Do have to modify it?
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:13:46] Not at all. No, it’s the perfect size. It’s just the little thin fleece blanket. That 40. What is it, 36 by 48. Whatever it is, is the perfect size. And it’ll hold up to about a 3,040 pound toddler. Wow. oversize beach towels. A lot of times I’ve actually watched some videos, like in continental Africa and, like, they just use a towel or a blanket, like I said, they’re just or it’s just their cotton, the, the Ankara cloth that they wear. That’s just the wrapper. It can be a skirt, a sarong or a super wide scarf.
So if you have a wide pashmina that has a nice tight weave to it, you can turn that into a wrap or a ring sling carrier. so you don’t have to go out and spend the $100 that somebody wants in a store. It doesn’t have to be that expensive? A lot of things in parenting. If it was always supposed to be hard and it was always supposed to be expensive, we wouldn’t still be doing it to this day. So there’s always a simpler way to do it.
Sarah Trott: [00:14:48] Yeah, that’s so true. We’ve had all kinds of great folks talking about child development on the show, making the point that, like, kids really don’t need fancy, expensive toys. They don’t.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:15:00] Water bottle and keys, that’s all they need.
Sarah Trott: [00:15:03] Oh, gosh. Yeah. You’re right. And I appreciate hearing that echoed here too. You know, you can use what you have and I was given a hand-me-down carrier similar to you. I think it was like a Baby Bjorn which was really nice and soft and broken in and lovely. And then I had, one of the more sling-y types, where do you go to figure out how to use it? It’s a safety issue, you worry about, if I don’t do it perfect, are they going to fall out?
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:15:50] There’s a quote that we have in the Babywearing community and especially with the wraps and those ring slings, we say that the rails. So a rail in Babywearing culture is like the one piece of fabric that you usually have, like the top of the fabric and then like the bottom of your fabric. So if it’s a scarf, you have like one side your top, one side, your bottom. We say top rails save lives. So if nothing else, you want to make sure that top that goes over the baby’s back and under their armpits, get that as snug as they can, because even sometimes the best of us as experts, if you will. We’ve had bad wraps or we didn’t buckle something carefully or something. Something always happens. Kids. Kid, I don’t know.
And I know one time I was wearing my child and I, like, looked in the mirror and her whole bottom was just dangling from. I’m like, how? How is that even? And it was just because she was doing this thing where like when they learn how to walk and they start pushing up on everything. So she was just jerking in the back of the carrier, and I wasn’t really paying her any mind, and she’s just jerking, jerking, jerking. And she popped the bottom of the wrap. And so it just came out from under her butt because the top was tied tightly. She’s just dangling there, and she’s still just jerking like she’s on like a jumperoo or something. And I’m like, what’s wrong with you? You know?
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:17:12] So there are certain things that you can look for that will help keep your kids safe and it is a practice. A new wearer, we recommend that the first probably couple of times that you’re trying out a new carrier regardless of the type is try it with somebody, preferably if you can find a babywearing educator. I know where I live, there is an organization that has a whole lending library and they do meetups. So you get to work with experienced parents as well as trained educators. I know some places that have postpartum care centers. So like I said, I’m outside of D.C., we have the Breastfeeding Center of Greater Washington, and they were a huge resource for me with both of my kids.
They also had something like an in-house where they sold the carriers, but they actually had someone who could help you try them on, kind of get them fitted to your body, because everybody is different. So there may be a carrier that works great for me and you’ll be like, I hated that carrier. My husband, as great as I was, I could wrap him with the kids, but he could never do it himself. I always said that he had little dinosaur arms, like he just didn’t have the range of motion. And that’s a reality for some folks. They may not have range of motion. You might be working with a parent that has, you know, upper body or torso weakness. So you might want something that’s a little bit more supportive, that has all the buckles and the belts and the whistles, because not only will it give their body support, but it will help the baby be supported because they can’t use their parent alone.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:18:44] Some parents like the ring sling because it is one handed. It’s more adaptive. In that way, it might be good for a parent where they can’t have anything around their waist. So if you’re thinking of a parent that might be using a wheelchair or is seated a lot or something like that, that might be a good option. They wouldn’t want anything around their waist, but that will help keep the baby close and on them. Or learning how to do a wrap that doesn’t have what we call a waistband or a waist pass. So there are different carriers that might be appropriate for different body types, different people’s lived realities, range of motion.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:19:22] And then like I said, just access. So you may not be able to go to a store and buy, like I said, the expensive carrier. But you have blankets at home. You have extra fabric or someone in your family that sews and they just have a ton of extra fabric laying around the house. so you make do with what you can. Like, I love some of the carriers that they’re almost like little baskets. Like when you think of cradle boards or like some of the carriers from Asia, they’re like little baskets with straps on them. So you get creative. I love seeing those videos where it’s like the dad or like the big brother, and like they put the baby in the sweatpants pockets or something like that. If it works, it works.
Sarah Trott: [00:19:59] Right, right. And there are things you can do to ensure safety. Right? as you’re saying. So that like top rail that goes securely under the armpits or under the, under the main part of their body.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:20:11] Yeah. So the two most important, I would say pressure points on the baby’s body or the toddler’s body is you want to make sure that they’re nice and secure under their upper body. So for an older baby it would go over. For younger baby it would go over their shoulders because they usually don’t have great torso control and the neck is still doing a little wobbly thing. Once a baby has torso control, they’re usually able to sit up. I would say even assisted, but definitely once they’re unassisted, you can start tying.
Or if you’re using a structured carrier, you can allow the carrier to fall underneath their armpits because you know, they have the actual core strength to hold their head and neck and shoulders up or not. Start kind of flopping around. The other point that you do want to support or aim to support is underneath their bottom. So under their butt for a little baby, we would say, and really for any baby you want to say from knee to knee. So when we think of babies, they like to scrunch, right? Like newborns all do that thing where you pick them up, they immediately draw those legs up underneath them. and so we want to make sure that they’re supported and kind of can keep that posture. That helps keep an open hip posture. and doesn’t put too much strain on their little hip joints and ligaments because they’re not fully fuzed yet.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:21:31] So I know a lot of folks were concerned because some years ago there were different carrier brands – I’m not going to out them per se, because they have updated it and changed their product – but there were some issues years ago where the carriers were very narrow, so babies legs were just kind of dangling. and there was a risk of hip dysplasia or hairline fractures or dislocations and stuff. And people got very kind of like, antsy about that. But again, with proper education and proper practice, you kind of learn how to make sure that you’re hitting those things.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:22:11] And as an experience where as you become more experienced, you can usually feel when something is off. so you can feel like, wow, like, this is really digging on this shoulder and you’re like, kind of like, turn around or look and you’ll see, like the kids, like hanging off like this, doing something weird or you’ll feel it. You’ll feel it in your body that something is off. So always also, as a parent, you would listen to your body, what’s comfortable, what is not comfortable. If it’s not comfortable, then we need to tweak it.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:22:43] And practicing practicing with you know, before putting your baby in practice with a doll baby or a stuffed animal or something that is not going to get hurt if you drop it until you get that muscle memory down. Practicing with a partner, practicing like over a sofa or a bed. So that if you need to get the baby out or like I said, if something slips that you have something soft for them to land on, it happens.
I know when my daughters got older, they actually used to, like where I would. When it was time for them to get out of the wrap, I would just sit on the edge of the bed and untie everything, and then they would just literally, like, flop themselves out of it on the bed. They thought that was so funny. and as children who were born and kind of raised in that wearing culture, they start to pick up very quickly what to do and what not to do.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:23:38] So sometimes I’ll tell people when you see a parent trying to wrap their baby, unless they ask you for help, don’t. Because that parent and that child, nine times out of ten, know what they’re doing and they know how to get themselves situated. And sometimes those extra hands can actually become more of an issue. So unless someone is asking you for help or they really ask first, like, hey, you need some help with that before you just come in and start? Because I’ve had people try to do that, and then that’s when they end up getting feet tangled, feet stuck, and that can be a safety issue. So making sure that the person who is working with the baby actually needs help or not.
Sarah Trott: [00:24:19] Yeah. Fair point. And the point you made about some of the older carriers having needed to be redone and issues addressed. Just to your point about safety, how new does a carrier need to be?
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:24:46] I would say anything that’s on the market right now, like if you’ve bought it within the last 5 to 10 years, it’s probably good. I would say for some of the structured carriers, I would just do like a quick check on https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls You can go on there, see if it’s been recalled or if there’s any notes about it, because it should still have, like any carrier that’s made commercially. So like if you’re buying a Tula, if you’re buying a Ergobaby, if you’re buying a Baby Bjorn, if you’re buying any of those commercial carriers, you bought it in a store, not from someone on Etsy. And I’ll say to Etsy seamstresses or designers, like, I’ve made my own carrier. So that’s not a knock to people who make or hand make carriers.
But if you’re buying a commercial carrier, it has to go through testing. So if there were any recalls or any issues with the fit or safety of it, it would be documented. If you are buying a carrier from somebody who’s doing handmade products, which is wonderful. Just verify that, again, that you’re doing your due diligence as a parent, that if the seams look a little weird or wonky, they look a little loose. You notice over time that as your children sit in, it’s just like with your clothes or anything else. If you see stuff starting to split or rip or tear you might want to contact that particular seller or see if someone can help repair it because you don’t want that to become a safety issue.
Sarah Trott: [00:26:27] Yeah. Yes. Okay. So then back to your point about learning how to wear it and getting into your groove with you and your family, baby partner, whoever. you talked about maybe there’s some resources where people can go to learn if they don’t have access to someone who’s an educator such as yourself. Do you have videos that you recommend? I know you mentioned a Babywearing guide.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:26:55] Yes, I have, yes, I have a one page Babywearing guide that just kind of goes over some of the very basics, like different carrier types. How to do a safety check with your carrier. Honestly, outside of my initial training, like I said, I went down the rabbit hole of like YouTube and TikTok. And so I did have several content creators on those platforms that I used to love watching. Some of them I think are active. Some of them as our children have grown up, they’re obviously not putting out content anymore because their kids are like they’re like four and five and seven, you know? So we’re not doing as much baby wearing that we used to unless they’re actively working, probably in birth work or something like that.
But I loved watching. I actually believe she still raps and does videos. Is a YouTube channel called Wrap You in Love there’s all, I think it was wrapping Rachel, who was someone who was somewhat local to me, but she’s like, she I mean, like old school videos, but they’re great, very you know, very break it down, try to show you the different angles. I have a couple videos, like, on, like my Instagram page and things like that.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:28:09] And basically, like I said, the thing that you want to keep in mind with wrapping Thing is those fancy what they call fancy finishes or fancy wraps, and they’re turning the wraps and carriers into like, tops and dresses, and they have fancy bows and ribbons and rings, and you don’t have to do all that. You can. It’s okay to just say, you know what? I can put the baby on my chest and I’m going to tie it across my chest, and we’re going to do a criss cross and that’s it. That’s fine. If that’s all you can do. and that’s where you’ll start.
So start there and get like I said, just get the basics down of knowing how to do a simple what we call criss cross or a front cross carry get get that down first. Perfect that It’s okay. And then you would do that with a shorter wrap or a smaller wrap so that you’re not having enough fabric to wrap, but it’s not so overwhelming. And I think that was where I think a lot of us go wrong. We see something, oh, it’s pretty and it’s like seven feet long and you’re like, I don’t know what to do with this. You know, start with one that’s maybe only like 3 or 4 ft long. And literally, it’ll be probably just enough fabric for you to get around you and your kid. So get your basics down, get comfortable with moving your baby around your body.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:29:30] The funniest thing is, and I see this both in Babywearing and I see this in lactation. We have a new generation of parents. I see a lot more parents that they’ve never really interacted with babies until they’ve had their own children. And so you now have parents that are afraid to touch and handle their babies. I say that in the nicest, most loving way. They’re not that fragile. They’re not going to break. Ideally, hopefully. You have to be able to be comfortable with moving your baby around your body. Like being able to put them on your hip and then from your hip to your back.
A more advanced way of getting older kids on their back. And they love it, as we call it the Superman toss. And that’s where you kind of hold them under their armpits, under their shoulders, and you literally toss them over your back. And when people who’ve never really seen Babywearing see you do that, they immediately like, oh my everyone like, freaks out. And I’m like, they’re fine. Like, they’re fine. The kids are fine.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:30:31] The kids are usually back there cracking up, laughing or completely unfazed because they’re used to it. And I guarantee brand spanking new parent who’s never baby worn before is going to be like, yes, let’s toss the baby over my shoulder like that. They’re like, no you’re going to start scooting them around the back. You might have them, you might sit on the sofa and have your partner put them on your shoulders and slide them down. You might if it’s an older kid, they might not even want to do it. They might be too heavy to do the Superman toss. Now you’re just going to sit down and say, just climb on my back, and then we’ll just pull the carrier up over.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:31:07] So you also find what works for you as far as unloading and loading your kids? Like I said, it’s practice. You’re going to take your time. like I said, practice over something soft. So you’re not going to do a Superman toss for the first time in the middle of a sidewalk? You’re going to do it in your house, preferably over a bed or over a sofa or an Ottoman or something big enough that if you know, if they slip or you got to restart, that you can do so safely. so. Yeah.
Sarah Trott: [00:31:38] Yes. Yeah. It’s so nice that you can even sit on your bed and maneuver however you need to know you have that safety cushion right there.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:31:49] Yeah. So yeah, I’ve worked with lots of parents that they sometimes like. They’re like they’re like, I’m only going to do this because you’re here because if you’re not here, that’s fine. That’s fine.
Sarah Trott: [00:31:59] Yeah. Until there’s more practice for sure. And then you know, we started talking about benefits earlier just right at the top about how it’s nice to be hands free as a parent. There are a lot of benefits for the baby developmentally, and I don’t want to skim over that. What do you talk about when you’re educating and talking about why we baby carry?
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:32:21] So one of the biggest reasons why I promote baby wearing, and why I loved it so much, is because I’m a big fan of attached parenting. I don’t want that to be confused with helicopter parenting. But there are lots of studies out now that talk about children who grow up with attuned and attached parents actually do have better independent skills when they get older because they know that their parents are a safe place to come back to. and I’ve seen that personally. Like, I have kids that they’re like, okay, cool. Whatever, mom. You know?
But like, like I said, when they were babies and toddlers, they were Velcro, like, they were always up under me and always wanted to be on me. And I kind of always wanted them to be on me because I didn’t have to worry about them so much. skin to skin is like, this is like one of the best ways to facilitate skin to skin, honestly. I love it for, especially for dads or non-gestational parents because it’s like you can go shirtless, put the baby in the wrap. You know, they feel your heartbeat. They’re hearing they’re hearing the sounds that they were used to hearing in utero. I mean, most of them were wedged right up underneath of our chest anyway. So they’re hearing that heartbeat. They’re feeling your body heat and getting that thermoregulation.
Skin to skin is known to help them develop and fire new neural pathways, and so help their brain development in the long term. So it’s great for that brain development aspect. and believe it or not, it does help with their physical development as well. As long as again, we’re following all the rules for safety and things like that because it actually acts as an aspect of tummy time.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:34:08] So when we have children that are we’re trying to reduce the fact that when they’re sleeping or in car seats or in like the bucket carriers, the car seat carriers that they’re, they’re on their head, they’re people are all worried about the flat spot and things like that. So Babywearing allows them to be able to be in a more upright position. It allows them to see more of their world from a different angle. They go from being on the floor.
And now, if you were a dad or uncle or somebody that’s like five foot 10 or 6ft tall, they’re like, oh, it’s a different world up here. So they’re getting different experiences. It helps with that. Again, that, that spinal development. So being able to develop their core strength because they have you and the carrier to act as a support and scaffold. So in a lot of places where babies are carried, they don’t have developmental difficulties with sitting up or walking. They walk and sit up and do all the things that the other kids do.
And like I said, I was joking before when I said that my youngest probably never touched the ground until she was six months old. That was a little bit of a hyperbole, but she did spend a lot of time in the carrier in her first 3 to 4 years of life. I’m pretty sure if I went home tonight and was like, you went uppy. She’d be like, yeah, you know. So it never leaves them.
Sarah Trott: [00:35:23] Same here with my kids who are well out of the baby carrier phase.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:35:27] Well, out of it, you know. So. But, it never leaves them, and honestly, I feel like it’s riding a bike. Like I said, I’ve taken care of children since my children were in that phase. I have a godson. And when he just starts, kind of like crying, ah, I’m like, do we need a time out? But instead of like, like two, three, we’re going to put him in a chair. It’s like, let’s go up. You know it helps with sensory regulation too for some kids.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:35:53] And from a medical perspective, even I’ve known people where their child has reflux. So laying them down is not really recommended right away, especially after feeding, but allows the parent to keep them sitting upright. And but like you said, you get your hands back so you’re able to kind of go about still the rest of your day without having to worry about, okay, I have to hold the baby and try to do this thing.
So it can help with babies who have reflux or, if they have hypersensitivity needs or something like that kind of thing can help them. Certain carriers you can have, like the little neck flap that folds up, kind of block out the world a little bit so that they’re not so stimulated or overstimulated. So it has several different benefits across the board.
Sarah Trott: [00:36:39] Yeah. And they love falling asleep there too.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:36:42] Yes. The best naps. I wish I could be in a carrier and take a nap. I wouldn’t have to worry about anything. And I used to get that all the time. As a parent, if you see an older person in a store. They were like, oh, that must be great. I wish I could get in the carrier and go to sleep, have my mom walk me around. I’m like, I know, right? It’d be great.
Sarah Trott: [00:37:02] Yeah, yeah. We’ve had a lot of episodes on sleep as well on the Fourth Trimester Podcast talking about sleep as well as topics around attachment and development and communication and the power of touch and development. And it seems like carrying hits a lot of those notes.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:37:20] Hits, all of those things. Yes.
Sarah Trott: [00:37:22] The baby’s close. They feel safe. They feel warm. They hear that heartbeat. You can look down. You get that eye to eye contact. Right? So they’re just in the perfect place to communicate and to feel your presence and to be held. And it’s a perfect place to just nod off and go to sleep.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:37:47] Absolutely. It’s the perfect oxytocin transfer. And so, like you said, it hits all of those really all of their initial needs when they’re that little, right? Because they don’t really need much. When they’re under a year old. They just need food. They need food, sleep and poop, you know? And you know, it helps them do all the things, even the going to the bathroom, because now their stomach is pressed up against your body. That ventral pressure actually helps. So if you’ve got a kid that’s not going and you just press on their belly a little bit and put them in a carrier, they’ll be better, I promise.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:38:22] A little, yeah, a little.
Sarah Trott: [00:38:23] Tummy massage to rub the tummy. Don’t go the wrong way. Don’t go the wrong direction.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:38:28] There is, there is – I love infant massage. And like when you said that when you’re looking and making sure that everything looks good, like that there are the safety checkpoints that we want to look for. And so one of those, like you said, is that they’re close enough to kiss and who doesn’t love sniffing the tops of baby heads? Like it’s the best thing? They just smell so good. So you want to make sure, like I said, that the carrier is not cutting off your circulation, but that it’s snug. You want to make sure that it is supporting the baby’s body, because a developing baby that doesn’t really have great core strength yet, they kind of like they scrunch and their back kind of rounds out.
We want them to kind of get that nice posture. I always think about how my daughter was like, why do you see some people where their backs do that thing? It’s because they don’t have good posture. So you need to sit up straight too, you know? So you want them tight so that they have a good posture. It also forces you as the parent to have good posture, because if your posture is incorrect and you’ve got that carrier on, it makes it worse, right? You want them to be in view of all time. So you should be able to just look straight down and see their face.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:39:32] Ideally, they should be close enough to kiss. They should be able to just kind of go down, kiss the top of their head. We also want to make sure that their positioning of their head is correct. so we say we want to keep that chin off the chest. That is the same thing. And this is me going into my health educator mode. The chin on the chest is like a big no no in a lot of baby stuff. So if they’re in the car seat. If they’re in a baby carrier, if they’re in, like one of those, mamaroo swings or anything like that, we don’t want their chin touching that chest because it closes off their airway.
So when they’re in the carrier, we want to make sure that they have room to be able to lift their head. Turn their head so that you can see kind of like with their nose and mouth, you should be feeling their breath kind of on your body a little bit. and if it’s not, one of the things we’ll look at is, are they kind of too low in the carrier? Sometimes when we have those structured carriers, they’re not that great for super little babies.
Sarah Trott: [00:40:31] I’ve seen inserts for that.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:40:31] Yeah. Some brands make you use an insert so they get to a certain size to keep them up above the edge of the carrier back. So make sure that you’re using the appropriate accessories. If they’re, they’re kind of small, we might need to use an insert or you have to do, you know, like the bolster roll, where you roll up the receiving blanket and kind of put that in the bottom of the carrier so that the baby can sit up higher.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:41:00] If you’re using a wrap, then maybe we need to tighten the wrap because there’s a little bit too much loose fabric and it’s not supporting them enough or they’re not high enough on your body. So sometimes with the wraps, it’s not that it’s not tight enough. Maybe we just have it too low on our body like they’re super small. when they get to be a little bigger, you can tie maybe closer to your waist or further down your chest or further down your back. But when they’re super little, we want them to be high.
So they’re kind of like right on your chest. Or if they’re on your back, they’re kind of like going across your shoulders. It’ll almost feel like but it’s better for them to be higher up than for them to be lower, because especially when they’re on your back, you’re not going to be able to quickly look at them and see if something’s off. Right. and then, like I said, supporting their back.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:41:44] So making sure that they’re not rounding their back out too much that it’s nice and snug for our newborns, our little fresh babies. that is coming up over their shoulders, not over their head, but up to their shoulders to kind of help support their neck as well. when you have the longer wraps sometimes you can take the end of a wrap or like, definitely with a ring sling. That’s great for this. You can take that long, flappy part of the ring sling and kind of roll it up and make it like a little neck pillow and kind of tuck it behind their neck so that they don’t go back too far and they don’t go too forward too far.
Some of the structured carriers will even have like, a little kind of like a pillowy piece that will go behind their head to kind of help support their neck as well. And then if they’re taking a nap or they fall asleep, you can snap it up so that it supports the back of their head. So when they sleep, they don’t do that thing where they fall back and their mouth’s all open and stuff like that. So you want it. So we call it the ticks so tight in view at all times. Close enough to kiss. Keep chin off the chest and you’re supporting their back. So know your ticks. Check your ticks.
Sarah Trott: [00:42:48] Know your ticks I love that. Just because a carrier can have lots of different positions and modes of operation, does that necessarily mean that all of those are recommended and safe?
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:43:04] Definitely may not be recommended. They may not just simply not work for you or you may not find it as intuitive. I know a lot of carriers. They all have like, what they call like a lot of the ones have what they call like a 360. You can use it all the way around your body. Front facing out, facing in. I hated using them on my side. I never used them on my side. Why would I do that? Like, that’s just weird. It just never worked out for me. And I never liked using it. If I’m going to have my baby on my hip, which is kind of like supposed to be the ideal, you can kind of have them on your hip and use it kind of like a hip seat, but then the straps were just in the way and kind of like kind of awkward and clunky to use.
And I’m like, if that’s going to be your go to method, you’re probably just better off getting a hip seat carrier. Or using a sling where you can just kind of put them in the sling and then slide them over to the side rather than fiddling with all of the extra buckles and straps and stuff. and then even certain modes may not be appropriate for your baby by age. so like with those carriers that can front face, back face, things like that, they’ll actually even tell you a lot of times in the manuals.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:44:13] Or maybe you’ll even hear from an instructor, unless you’re a super experienced wearing parent. it’s not widely recommended to wear newborns on your back. Not saying you can’t. You can if you’re used to it, if you feel comfortable with it. But if you’re not, don’t do it like I said. Because if something happens the baby kind of starts slipping.
I remember one time I turned around, my kids had popped the bottom of her seat and she’s like, just dangling. You know? Like I said, that happens to a lot of folks. and a parent who’s a little bit less aware may not notice that. and like, that’s scary. You don’t want that to happen. So if you’re not, if you’re not comfortable with something, it’s better to not do it until you’ve had the practice and you feel comfortable with it.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:44:55] So front facing a baby. you shouldn’t front face a baby until they can sit up because then they’re using the carrier as a support, and the carrier shouldn’t be supporting them in that way. They should be able to hold their own body up. and the carrier just literally keeps them from falling forward. So if your baby can’t sit up, they should probably still be facing in towards your body. either on the front or their back.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:45:17] And then once they’re able to do that, you can do the forward facing out. I don’t love seeing parents do, like the stretchy wraps facing forward. Some wraps that you can do that. I don’t like it. I just feel like it’s like they start sagging, and it just always looked very scary to me. And I just never loved seeing it. A woven wrap is a little different. because it doesn’t stretch. So there’s no give to the fabric. And there is naturally, just by the nature of the fabric, more support.
And as someone who went to school for design and fashion, I’m like, that’s not what the nature of that fabric is for. Like, ah, you know. So then it just starts setting off like. So I’m like, now I got my babywearing educator certification. Like it’s like flashing over here and my fashion design is flashing over here. And my health educator and it’s just like, ah, just turn the baby around like, so you know, there’s certain things that like, if, if it was a client of mine or something, I might discourage them from doing. But ultimately that’s between that parent and their baby and Godspeed. But some things are, I would say, probably not widely recommended. So like those are my personal pet peeves. I’m sure you could talk to somebody else and they would have a whole different list.
Sarah Trott: [00:46:33] Well, yeah. But I mean, as an educator you’ve spent a lot of time researching and looking at the evidence around different approaches. Can people just come to you for a 15 minute video consult and say like, is this right? Does this look okay?
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:46:50] Yes! You can.
Sarah Trott: [00:46:55] Sometimes that’s all it takes.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:46:57] Yeah. No, really, I’ve done lots of those and you’d be surprised. It’s just like I said. Or if they’re local to the DC area, I’ve even done them in person for certain folks. and like, yeah, just having someone who kind of just knows what they’re looking at to say, like, oh, that makes sense now or like, oh, I didn’t know what that buckle was for. That makes sense now, you know? So not every not everybody is a visual learner. Not everybody is a reading learner. Some people are auditory, some people. And I feel like babywearing especially you, sometimes you just have to do it. You have to be in it, or you have to have someone physically show you and let you copy.
And that can honestly be the best way for folks to learn, you know. And then like, also like, who wants to spend, like, hundreds of dollars on a bunch of different carriers to try to figure out which one’s the right one for you when you can just have someone like me come to your house, or you can you know, find like a parent meetup and you all try on all these different carriers. And then when you find the one that you like, you’re like, oh, I like this style, or I like this brand, or I like this feature, and it’s something I think I need to have.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:48:08] If you go to Target, most of the targets, they do have at least one out of the box where you can kind of look at it and fiddle with it. I miss Babies R Us, though, because Babies R Us was great for that. You know, old school parents are like, oh, yes, new parents don’t do anything about that. But, bye bye, baby. I know some of those are coming back now, so if you are fortunate enough to have a bye bye baby in your area, you could also try there. So there are some stores, like I said, some parenting Boutiques like, I know some of the bigger cities will have little boutiques and baby stores and stuff like that, see if they have or carry carriers in store. That’s a great way to get your hands on one.
Really look at it, see what the different features are, how it feels. a lot of times they will maybe have someone who can, like I said, at least help you kind of get it on and get an idea of how it’s supposed to work before you go and drop $100 on a carrier. Like you said, talking to parents in your circle, if you have friends or other family that you saw baby wear and you’re interested in it, see if they’ll let you borrow a carrier or show you what worked for them. and use that as your starting guide. And then you can go on like I said, YouTube and TikTok and Instagram and kind of see what other folks are doing.
And like I said, stick to videos or stick to tutorials or stick to carriers that are within your wheelhouse and what feels comfortable. so like I said, don’t start off with the eight foot rap like I did. You know, just because it was pretty you know, or like you want that ergobaby carrier because it has, like, I don’t know, Pokemon or something on it, now they have all these crazy prints and designs and it’s like, oh, I want that. And then, like, you get it and you’re like, I have no idea how to use this, you know? So, get what you think you can handle and then work your way up.
Sarah Trott: [00:52:07] Yes. And I want to make sure we mention that, similar to the way it works with car seats, there are limitations to how long a baby should be in a certain position.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:52:17] Yeah. So the same way that you would say maybe about two hours for a car seat, I would say it’s about the same for a carrier. and again, that’s a two hour block, right. So two hours, probably within that two hours If you’re carrying an infant, you’re going to have to feed them. So you’re going to have to take them out to feed them. So that would be like their 15 to 20 minute stretch break. so for two hours, you want to give them a little bit of a break, stretch their legs, change their diaper, do a little bicycles to get some of their circulation back in their knees. And then you can go back. so yes, very similar guidelines as to car seats.
Same thing if you were in a car seat. And that’s for any person, right. You shouldn’t be sitting in any one position. You know, if you have a like I’m not an Apple person, but if you’re an apple, I know the apple people have got to watch their like you have not moved in an hour. so you’re like so it’s the same thing. we should be moving. Babywearing is a little different. They don’t have to be stuck in a position. You can kind of shift things, but you want at least maybe two hours. Take them out 15, 20 minutes, feed them, change their diaper if it’s an older child or toddler. Usually they get antsy before that point anyway, and they’ll just be up down up down up down. So they’ll let you know when they’re ready to get out. But if not, if you have like one of those really chill kids. Same thing every 2 to 3 hours. Take them out, let them get a break, stretch their legs.
Sarah Trott: [00:53:44] That’s what you look for. And make sure your kids are getting breaks from that car seat.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:53:49] Yes. Yes.
Sarah Trott: [00:53:53] And so, are there any common mistakes you see people making that you just want to put the word out and say, like, don’t do this one thing because I see it all the time.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:54:04] Outside of the front facing in the stretchy wraps. I would say, one thing that I won’t say, I’ve seen it a lot, but I have seen it is with the structured carriers specifically. So Tula’s ergos art pops. any of those structured baby bjorns. infantinos. really We take the time to , if you’re not like, a book learner, like, try to like, look up that carrier online or go to, like, their Instagrams or their web pages and look at what their educators are doing. because one thing I do see a lot of times it’s the straps. The straps are just very fiddly if you’re not used to them. And I’ve seen them kind of be buckled in the wrong places or like the fit is off or it’s uneven. And so one of the things I do hear is they say that certain carriers are not comfortable, and it’s eight times out of ten it’s a user error. And I would say the other 1% or 10% would be like, maybe it’s just not a great carrier for their body type. or then it’s or it’s just, you know it’s just completely incompatible for whatever reason. Range of motion. Or they’ve got some truly physical thing going on where it’s like, okay, just don’t use this type of carrier at all. But a lot of times it’s a user error and stuff’s not adjusted equally or the child’s not in the, in the carrier properly.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:55:41] And I would say the other big thing is, like I said, their head should actually be clear of the carrier itself. So nothing should be covering their face, just like you wouldn’t. You’re not supposed to put blankets over babies. We’re not supposed to put blankets in their cribs or their pack and play like nothing should be blocking your child’s face. You should want to look at your baby’s beautiful face all the time. you should be able to see it 24 over seven. and I have seen, like I said, babies that are a little bit on the smaller side. or like, maybe the parent has the carrier on the body too low and so that they’re kind of sunk down and all you see is like the top of their head, right here. And I’m like, okay.
And one thing I have learned as a health educator and as a parent is that sometimes parents get very defensive of their parenting choices. And I would say as a parent to another parent is sometimes people are genuinely just trying to help. Not everything is an attack. And we’re just worried about you and your baby’s well-being. so, as we say in one of my words, like, be open to correction. It’s not always an attack. but sometimes you just have to know, and it’s like, okay, I can’t. I’m not going to say anything because I just don’t need that smoke today.
But so, that’s always a hard fought battle for me is whenever I see the babies and all I see is, like, the tops of their little heads. And I’m like, you’re supposed to have them higher so make sure their head is clear of the top of the carrier or if you’re wrapping them they shouldn’t be completely covered up where we can’t see. They need to breathe, guys. Yeah.
Sarah Trott: [00:57:19] It’s about safety.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:57:21] It sounds common sense, but yes, I do see that a lot. The babies are. The babies are completely covered up by the courier.
Sarah Trott: [00:57:29] and what about carrying and breastfeeding? Can those two go hand in hand?
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:57:34] Absolutely. And it’s one of my favorite things to teach is like how to teach parents how to breastfeed in carriers. it is the ultimate cheat code in parenting, in my opinion. especially if you’re a parent where nursing in public for you is also a bit of a challenge. whether you’re uncomfortable with it or you live in an area where people are just not up to speed, for lack of a better word. if you live if you’re in one of those types of situations or you’re just a modest person, some people are just they just don’t like to be exposed.
And that’s totally okay. but that doesn’t mean that you should have to go and hide off in a corner in order for your baby to eat. Like we don’t go and eat in tents or under blankets or anything like that. So actually I do love babywearing, especially for public nursing. because it does offer you some non visibility. It’s usually pretty discreet for the most part. I mean, like for someone to know that you are nursing, they would have to be really all up in your personal space. And then it’s just like, well, that’s weird in of itself, right? so I’ve definitely nursed in a carrier in public.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [00:58:55] I’ve gone to, like, festivals, through the airport, you know? because as much as those airport pods are great, they’re usually nowhere near the gate that I need to be. looking at you. Atlanta. So it’s nice where it’s like, oh, like, we have to board in 20 minutes, but I don’t want to run all the way back down to gate B 12, you know? So we’re going to sit right here at the gate. We’re going to nurse the baby in the carrier. And then I can cover myself back up and we’re going to get on this plane or go back to the family function or whatever you were doing.
So I think it’s great to allow you to be able to stay out and about and just continue on with your life. I’ve been in one of those situations where I’m like, trying to cook dinner and I have the toddler wants me to play a game, and the baby was hungry. And so like, yeah, I’m nursing in the carrier while cooking dinner and playing with magnets on my refrigerator. You know, that’s some of our realities at some points in life. So it’s definitely one of the ultimate parenting tools, in my opinion. And I always said I mourned the day where I had to give up breastfeeding, and the second day was when I had to give up baby wearing because I was just like, what do I do now?
Sarah Trott: [01:00:09] It’s wonderful because you can walk around and breastfeed at the same time. And completely modestly and be going about whatever you need to do because let’s face it, we are busy.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [01:00:27] We are all busy. And I like to think that as moms we always say like, oh, I want to have it all. And reality is like, no, you can’t. But that lets you get as close to it as possible, because I think as you can and as you can you can do the things and still be able to meet the needs of, of your children. And I think that’s the biggest takeaway from that, is that it just allows you to meet so many needs that kids need. until they don’t. and it’s on your terms, because if you don’t want to wear you don’t have to or you can say, not right now or wait five minutes.
But it was just such an important tool of my life to the point where, like, as my friends started having children, they knew they were going to get two things from me, and they were going to get like a postpartum care basket. And in that basket was going to be some kind of a carrier, a wrap or a woven carrier or something. And I’m like, and when you’re ready, give me a call and I will come over and show you how to use it. And like, you know. So it’s the gift that kept giving.
Sarah Trott: [01:01:32] Everybody needs you as a best friend, Whitney.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [01:01:36] I do what I can.
Sarah Trott: [01:01:38] any final words you want to share with our listeners?
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [01:01:42] Like I said, practice makes perfect. you’re not going to know all of the things and do all of the things immediately. My oldest is now seven, seven and a half. so I’ve been doing this since she was a baby, and there’s still stuff out there that I’m pretty sure I don’t know or I’m not good at. There’s carriers I have not mastered. And people here consider me a subject matter expert. And, yeah, I know it in theory, but it was never my favorite, you know?
So it’s a continual practice. and it’s something that you can practice beyond your own children because people will always have kids, right? So you have nieces and nephews, and eventually I would love to be like grandma. Like I want to be like that old village grandma that is like walking around with her grandkids. I want to be her. So it is a life practice. And I feel like it became part of our lifestyle as parents. I was not the mom who had a stroller in the back of my car. I did have four carriers. I had a carrier for every situation. I had a blanket, I had a carrier, I had a ring sling. And they all saved me at different points. like people always talk about like, oh, I hate having to take a sleeping baby out of the car.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [01:03:01] And I’m like, I didn’t care cause I was going to put her in a carrier and she’s going to go right back to sleep. It was great. so that was that was an integral part of my parenting. but practice makes perfect. you have to start somewhere. So don’t be afraid to just jump out and try something. and if you’re not getting the hang of it and YouTube University is not cutting it for you, explore your community and see is there another parent and community? Is there a babywearing educator located in your area?
Or maybe how I started out was I wanted to learn for myself, and that turned into me learning and sharing with others. so there’s like the center for Babywearing studies. I believe Amy still has her course up on join. And there’s some other organizations, usually some of the I know some doula training organizations will teach baby wearing such as Mamissy birth services in new Jersey teach the baby wearing course. so look to see what else is out there. And maybe in the process of learning for yourself, you’ll be able to learn from others.
Sarah Trott: [01:04:11] Thank you. Thank you so much. And, Whitney, if people want to get in touch with you or learn more about you, where would they go.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [01:04:18] So they can find me? on most of the social media sites at the Mamas Dula themamasdula.com. I believe that’s it. Across all of them. So Instagram, TikTok. and then my Facebook, my business Facebook page is @theMamasDula. And like I said, for anyone who might be listening that is local to the Washington, DC area. So Prince George’s, Montgomery, Charles County. I do in-person consultations where we can do the whole shebang where we’ll try on all the different carriers and figure out what you have. and then we also do virtual, like, fit checks and things like that.
Sarah Trott: [01:05:06] Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Whitney.
Whitney Dula, IBCLC: [01:05:09] Thank you. It was a pleasure.
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